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ForTheLoveOfMrsBrown
Beginner January 2012

Self-fulfilling prophecies - food for thought

ForTheLoveOfMrsBrown, 26 of November of 2012 at 21:04 Posted on Off Topic Posts 0 30

I recently read a book chapter about self-fulfilling prophecies and how vulnerable we are (proper psychology, not wishy-washy self-help). To be honest, it made me think about some of the girls here, given the recent flurry of sh*t husbanding going on. I wondered if it might be helpful for some. I will bullet point for brevity.

The Thomas Theorem and self-fulfilling prophecy - the future is a result of actions, and actions are the result of behaviour, and behaviour is the result of prediction. You start with a false interpretation of an ongoing situation, carry out behaviour as if this interpretation is real, and the situation then becomes real. In hindsight, it will seem as if that's how it always was.

Subjective reality .v. objective reality - your subjective (not measurably true or false) interpretation of reality leads you to assert that something is true. If enough people follow that belief, if government policies are made based on it, if social interaction propagates the belief, it will become objectively (and therefore measurably) true.

Stereotype threat - people perform behaviours and actions that they feel match their 'stereotype'. For example, black students fare worse on standardised tests than white students, but only if you tell them you are measuring their intelligence. White athletes can't jump as high as usual if they put up against a black classmate. Women fail maths tests when they are competing against men and under the stereotypic illusion that men are better at maths.

Labelling theory - when someone believes you are a certain kind of person, you tend to live up to those expectations. Average students improve their performance when teachers are fooled into thinking the students are smart. It's a positive feedback loop. It's not that the teachers deliberately set out to give extra help to students they know to be average, it's that once under the false premise that the students are smart, the teachers' behaviours change (attention, respect, etc) and that induces the students to try hard, become more motivated, become smart.

The bottom line - if you think someone is going to be horrible, you will act in a hostile way, thus causing them to be horrible. If you think your husband doesn't live you, you respond accordingly (maybe minor issues become big hurts) and this drives them to distance themselves. The things you think are true will become true, given enough time. If you want a better marriage, you have to behave as if the thing you want the other person to do is going to happen.

My note: you cannot change their behaviour but we can all change our own.

30 replies

Latest activity by Pittabre, 28 of November of 2012 at 20:13
  • OB
    Beginner January 2011
    OB ·
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    Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

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  • *Mini*
    Beginner January 2012
    *Mini* ·
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    I did a course in this a while back, lou tice? It's the same sort of thing. It does make sense and when I can rennet to apply it I find it much easier with the kids around.

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  • *Bea*
    Beginner October 2011
    *Bea* ·
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    So strange I was driving home today thinking the same thing and wondering how I could start a post about it. Very interesting Footlong, I tend to agree. I am a great believer of positive actions producing positive results and the reverse is also true.

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  • Helenia
    Beginner September 2011
    Helenia ·
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    Interesting stuff, and certainly I think it plays a part in a lot of our interactions. I find it quite true in my professional life as well as personal.

    I have been reading "You are not so smart" recently - which is, I suppose, a pop psychology book, but is more about cognitive tricks our mind plays on us rather than anything mushy. It's quite fascinating to read all the biases and false memories that we all have without even thinking about them.

    (And when OH found it lying around, he left it out on the table with a post-it on the front saying "Yes you are!" which I thought was super-sweet ?)

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  • ForTheLoveOfMrsBrown
    Beginner January 2012
    ForTheLoveOfMrsBrown ·
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    Helenia - you will reach this chapter!

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  • ~Peanut~
    Beginner December 2012
    ~Peanut~ ·
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    I find this kind of thing really interesting. Similar to what BB said, when I was suffering from depression the most lifechanging piece of advice someone once gave me is that you can't change the things that have happened to you in your life, but you can change the way you think about them.

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  • MummyMoo82
    Beginner October 2012
    MummyMoo82 ·
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    It's like the old "dress for the job you want, not for the one you have" type thing.

    good job I don't follow that - sharp business suits are not appropriate for being a SAHM with an 18month old

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  • 3d jewellery
    3d jewellery ·
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    Not the same but kind of related I always think about the OK corrall which was something I used to teach om management courses. It is about how relationships work and I am very conscious that it is true. Simplistically if I decide I don't like you or am afraid of you I will behave differently to how I will if I do like you. This behaviour in turn causes you to behave differently and the dislike becomes mutual or you bully me. (so this is the your not ok I'm not ok scenario there are 4) I can see this is some of my work relationships and by making a conscious effort to change my behaviour have broken the circle.

    There is also the theory that you can get what you want by writing it down and believing that you will get it. This produces positive behaviour which makes people behave posiyevly towards you rather than being locked in a downwards spiral of negativity. I have been surrounded by negativity at work recently and decided to try this approach and the mood has lifted massively. I have to conclude that my mood was obvious and I was allowing people to moan and encouraging it.

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  • Pittabre
    Pittabre ·
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    Applying this to my Ex's behaviour does help explain it somewhat - he thinks I will be argumentative and nasty and he thinks that I am deluded and bi-polar and mad (all his descriptions) so everythign I do he puts that view poitn over it. So if I ask him a perfectly normal question he will assume it is an attack or weird behaviour and will attack because of it. Whereas if anyone else asked it, it would eb fine.

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  • Arquard
    Beginner May 2011
    Arquard ·
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    This was my mantra for dealing with a lot of stuff from my childhood, and it absolutely saved my life.

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  • Pinky6
    Beginner June 2012
    Pinky6 ·
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    I did a lot about this at Uni and completely agree with it, it makes a lot of sense.

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  • raincloud
    Beginner August 2011
    raincloud ·
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    I think similar and often tell my students this. If someone gives you a complement about a dress and you say 'what this old thing?' they start to change their mind and think you look ok, rather than great. Keep this up and they will stop complementing you, and you in turn will never get complements so never feel better about yourself and so on. Same with intelligence - if you say you aren't very clever, others will assume you 'know yourself' and so not ask you when they want advise/knowledge etc. Which will make you feel you really aren't clever enough to be asked, so next time you repeat that you aren't very clever and so on. Act confidently about whatever and others will believe you.

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  • *Mini*
    Beginner January 2012
    *Mini* ·
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    This is the "self talk" aspect of the course I did, its good but you have to actiavly think about what you plan on doing or the old habits creep in.

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  • *Eclair*
    Beginner August 2012
    *Eclair* ·
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    I might get this book. We did a bit on self-fulfilling prophecies during my degree and I did my A-level psychology coursework on labelling.

    I definitely think that if you are expecting something, or even if it is suggested then you find behaviours that fit to that assumption.

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  • pandorasbox
    Beginner August 2012
    pandorasbox ·
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    This is really interesting. I think I do agree on some principles, for example while H and I have been going through a tense time, I see certain things in his behaviours/words that aren't intended and wouldn't usually bother me - but because of how he was acting the day before and so on. Likewise, he assumes I am being snarky because I probably was being (as a result of me assuming he was being a twonk).

    Same is true at school. I have kids in top set who behave almost perfectly, motivated, enthusiastic etc. I have kids in a bottom or mixed group who have exactly the same CATs and KS3 scores and GCSE target grades as those members of the top set. Yet because of the group they are in with a number 3 or 4 by their class code, and the attitudes they recieve from staff/each other, they act as if they are incapable when all the data actually suggests otherwise. Obviously there are lots of other factors at play, but a lot of students who have the 'what's the point I will fail' attitude do tend to...well, fail or do badly. Part of us being assessed for inspections is 'high expectations of all students' and it makes a lot of sense. If we constantly 'dumb' it down for less able groups, they may not feel as respected, and definitely won't be exposed to the vocab that a top set group may hear from staff.

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  • Storky
    Beginner May 2011
    Storky ·
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    I am awesome. I just wanted to drop that in here...

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  • Pittabre
    Pittabre ·
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    That's how I feel and keep being told I need to discover the real me - well hwo on earth do I do that?

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  • Pittabre
    Pittabre ·
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    5 months ago my husband of ten years (partner for 15) left me and my world revolves around my children and I have fairly low self esteem but that is to do with never having things acknowledged about me and being non-valued. But I am fairly easy going - I'm a shades of gray type person meaning I don't see things as black and white as opposed to *that* book so am willing to try anything or do anything and don't have strong opinions on most things so because of that I don't appear well defined enough to people. When asked what do I enjoy doing I respond spending time with my children but that isn't a *good* enough answer for most.

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  • Pittabre
    Pittabre ·
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    .

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  • ~Peanut~
    Beginner December 2012
    ~Peanut~ ·
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    P and Flora - hope I'm not out of line in saying this, but both of you have asked me about borderline personality disorder before, and if you do have it (or at least some of the symptoms/characteristics) then CBT is very unlikely to work for you. Other therapies have been developed from CBT but have been adapted for BPD clients as CBT has found to not be very effective with that client group.

    Also hope I'm not out of line in saying that a lack of sense of self is a symptom of BPD...not that I'm saying you have it, just that you're not the only person who feels that way and you're not alone.

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  • Pittabre
    Pittabre ·
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    Peanut - thank you for thinking of me and remembering I did do a bit of googling after your thread and took a couple of onlien questionnaires and it didn't suggest that I had them. I think I had either three or four or the symptoms and was highly suggestive of a different mental dsorder of which I can't remember now! But thank you again.

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