Do some kids just need shouting at?!

I'm sure the 'right' answer to this is no, but can't help but wonder if those parents who say that they never shout at their children are just fortunate enough to have children that don't need shouting at?!

E isn't right at the moment, and I am taking this into account with regard to his (hideous) behaviour at the moment. My mum even commented yesterday about my neverending patience with him. Fortunately it isn't quite as bad as it was several months ago, I still wonder how the hell I got through that without putting him into care. 

However, this morning over breakfast he was getting really silly over it. Asked for cheerios, I gave him cheerios, then he screamed because I poured them out, and proceeded to try and throw them everywhere. He is old enough now that he knows what he is doing. After several similar episodes this morning I'd had enough and really bellowed at him, then walked out of the room. I came back in 2 mins later once he and I had calmed down, and he sat eating very nicely and chatted nicely to me. 

Has me wondering that perhaps he just needed to know enough was enough? 

He has just had another paddy over my giving him milk, that again he asked for, I sternly said 'that's enough' and he has chilled out again.

I'm not suggesting I shout at him continuously, but do you think sometimes they need it, or am I just trying to justify being a terrible mother?!! 

I think as long as it isn't a regular thing and the child knows you love them it is fine.

I feel that if children are only ever shouted at they become immune to it so it loses it's impact. If a parent doesn't normally shout but a child's behaviour becomes so bad (or dangerous - ie running out into the road) then a shout tends to stop them in their trackes because they don't normally hear that so they know that Mum/Dad are NOT happy.

I do shout at my daughter but, if I feel I'm being unreasonable (which I admittedly am at the moment) I will apologise to her and we have a huge cuddle and kiss. Guess what - we're not perfect and thanks goodness for that!!

You're anything but a terrible mummy! He chatted nicely to you afterwards and behaved so he isn't hurt or scared of you. I think you've done the right thing.

i think sometimes they need to know they have crossed the line, and i know for my boys it usually means me exploding.... i do try the patience thing (especially at the moment with c who is getting his last molar and is just not himself resulting in lovely behaviour) but i am not good at patience.. bujt usually once i have shouted they go back to their normal selves... well until the next time!

Firstly - you are SO NOT a terrible mother, so put that one straight out of your thoughts.

And secondly, I do agree with you - some children are more demanding, naughty, high-maintenance than others and do seem to need stricter parenting.  Which unfortunately, does mean a lot of regular shouting out.  N still gets bollocked at least twice a day and often dragged to his room as a punishment.  He's definitely old enough to know exactly what he's doing, but seems to enjoying pushing those boundaries on almost an hourly basis.  It's exhausting.  But, I have noticed that he goes through phases of this.  He can be lovely for weeks on end, then have a foul few days where all I do is shout at him.  I'm sure it's all tied into growth spurts, tiredness, illness, over stimulation at pre-school etc., but knowing that doesn't make it easier to deal with.

Some children on the other hand, seem naturally quiet, compliant and well behaved.  My neice is like this.  I don't think my brother has had to shout at her once as she simply does nothing wrong.  My best friend's little girl is equally quiet and well behaved.  You just wouldn't know that there was a 2 year old living in their house as she quietly does her thing, never disobeys and never makes a noise or a mess.  But, lovely as they both are - they do seem to lack the omph and spark of my manic and very naughty children, so I know which I prefer. 

PS.  Still on for 2nd?

I'm sure you're right, and the 'right' answer is no, but blimey they know how to push your buttons some times, and although I'd like to be able to say I'd never shouted at E, it'd be a complete fib!

I think like you say, sometimes they need to know when enough is enough, and sometimes the shock of me shouting is enough to snap her out of whatever she's doing. As long as it's used in moderation I don't see a massive issue with it TBH. I live next door to a guy who has his kids every alternate weekend, and literally shouts all the time at the poor little boy, so much so we've had to mention it last weekend, as I couldn't bear to listen to it any more.

You're not justifying being a terrible mother, just letting him know where his boundaries are and what you'll tolerate.

x

Twigi:

 lovely as they both are - they do seem to lack the omph and spark of my manic and very naughty children, so I know which I prefer. 

PS.  Still on for 2nd?

Yes, we will be there! 

I know what you mean by this. We spent an afternoon/evening with my friend and her little girl last week. She is very sweet, and does exactly as she is told, never had a proper tantrum etc. but definitely lacked the spirit that E has which is something I do love about him, even though it often drives me to !! 

I don't shout regularly at him (yet, just wait until I have two to deal with!!) so it does have the desired effect at the moment and does shock him when I do it. 

Some children need disciplining more than others that's for certain, and some respond to shouting, others like Z take not a blind bit of notice.  I don't shout at her, not because I'm a good mother, but because there is absolutely no point and all it does is wind me up more.  She responds much better to having attention withdrawn so in an example like the cheerios I would just walk out of the room.

Do whatever works, it sounds as though it works for you so stick with it.

I think there are days/situations when shouting is needed! However, I'm saddened a little by this feeling that well behaved children lack spirit. Just as an example we spend time every week with a friend whose daughter is the same age as Izzy (just turned 2). The other little girl is certainly going through a challenging phase, tantrums often etc. Around other children my confident, sparky little girl becomes much quieter and is very well behaved in comparison (trust me, she's not always like this). If thought my friend was leaving and saying Izzy lacked oomph and spirit I'd be devastated. Sorry, derailing slightly but please don't assume what you see is an accurate portrayal of their behaviour and certainly not their personality.

Sorry bookgirl, didn't mean to make such a sweeping generalisation and I know that children show different sides to different people and in different situations.  I only commented on this as I know both the well behaved girls I mentioned very well and although they are both absolutely lovely, they do both lack a certain something.  My brother has even commented that his daughter is a bit quiet, doesn't interact well with others and a bit of a loner - but he loves the fact that she's so well behaved and quiet that he has no desire to bring her out of her shell.  Whereas my 2 are most definitely out of their shell and showing absolutely no signs of returning and trust me, at times I wish they would!

I really think you have to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes on this one – or push someone else’s pram for a mile, however you want to put it!

But I do think that whether you shout at your child or not is influenced by your personality, not just by the child’s behaviour.

I haven’t yet shouted at R (2.5 yrs). I have used my slow, low, stern ‘don’t mess with me’ voice – but I’ve never shouted. Now I have wondered in the past, am I just SmugMotherWithEasyChild? But reading your post, I don’t think I am. I was nodding along to the tantrum over Cheerios – I have had the exact same in my house with R! But I haven’t shouted at her in that situation.

But then I think about my arguments with my husband. Neither of us are shouters, it’s just not the way we express ourselves – so it’s not because she’s an ‘easy’ child, it’s because I don’t shout. I also make an active choice not to shout too – but my personality probably makes that decision easy.

In my view, shouting occasionally at a child who is secure in your love will not do any damage. However, I think whether you shout or not is not simply down to your child’s behaviour. I’m in the no camp – I don’t think that some children just need to be shouted at. However, I think that the pressures of parenting and people’s personalities mean that some children will be – and that it generally isn’t a problem.

I agree in many ways with MG on this one in terms of it being as much about your personality as anything else.  Although I am totally the opposite to her in that I am naturally hot headed and can get easily impatient and would have no problem shouting at my husband in an argument! (sorry Mr P!)  As I was reading your OP I was thinking "Why do I shout at E?" and it occured to me it was partly because he was pressing my buttons but partly because it was the way I was dealing with those buttons being pressed iyswim.  He isn't a naughty or difficult child.  In fact I would say he is very easy but sometimes, like anyone, he has his moments and certain days he has a lot of those moments!  If I'm in a good frame of mind I can be rational but other days when things are going wrong and the stress is mounting up and he is also having numerous moments it's not quite as easy to be 100% in control and that's partly because of the way I deal with things and unfortunately it is something I do because it is the way I am iyswim.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go around randomly shouting at E or lose it for the hell of it on the basis of "well that's just me so that's ok" and I am totally aware of my ability to get louder. I grew up in a house with A LOT of shouting/arguing (sometimes throwing!) and that was just the adults and unfortunately it has rubbed off on me (well, not the throwing luckily - E does that ) and no matter how hard I try to fix it, it seems to be in built.  I am painfully aware that I don't want history to repeat itself  and it isn't a way I would want E to communicate so I would never, ever argue with my H in front of E for example but I can't quite seem to get myself under enough control to never, ever shout.  I really wish I could master "no shouting ever" but for me it is unrealistic so I just have to keep tabs on it and think before I speak and try to remember that if I feel it brewing to leave the room, take a deep breath and return unflustered!

I think as long as you are aware of how your personality works and you don't spend your whole time shouting (which you don't) and you ensure they receive lots of positive attention then there isn't a problem. 

x

I don't know about shouting as such that may be down to personality but i do think that children benefit from knowing that this time they really really have crossed a line iyswim, that there are boundaries and there are boundaries...kind of like the parents who say they never smack but would if their child ran into a road.  I don't think it necessarily is shouting, oddly I am quite a shouty parent and it doesn't seem to have much of a negative effect on H, but not much of a help in getting her to do what she is told either, but one day when heavily pregnant with R, her and friend went upstairs to the toilet, in the time they were away they went into the our third bedroom where we keep all of our papers (bank statements etc), plus files of sentamental stuff (old cards etc) and trashed it!, they emptied the files all over the floor, the shredder which was also in that room and full of shedded paper was emptied all over the floor, you honestly would not believe the devistation that two three years olds could cause in 10 minutes.  Now I didn't shout, if I am honest I barely actually told her off, but I was obviously devestatingly upset by the whole thing, on the verge of tears, my friend actually ushered the two children out of the room.  And oddly (or perhaps not), more than any punishment, it effected H...the same friend is coming around tomorrow and over six months later she is saying "don't worry mummy we won't go in the third bedroom".  In a sense I can see how really shouting at a child can have the same effect, particularly for a usually quiet parent and to be honest yes I think that sometimes it is necessary for children to realise OMG that wasn't just naughty that was really bad.  I would worry if we went out of our way to always hide emotions, and I think they help with what I always think of as the importance of understanding natuaral consequences, in real life the reason why certain behaviour is unacceptable isn't because 30 year olds are worried they end up on the naughty step, its because that certain behaviour really can upset people and generally most people don't want to behave in a way which makes others really upset and angry and I think that children seeing genuiue anger through shouting, or genuine upset as h did that day helps them to understand the world.  And yes I do think that if you child never would do anything to actually really make you angery or upset then this wouldn't apply...I prey that Reuben will be such a child because Harriet certainly isn't!