Is this odd, or have I lived a sheltered life? (poss sens)...

ooh la la:

That's what I originally thought, but there were no charity logos on it and lacked the general, "running in memory of.." written on it. The front was plain. She also didn't look especially sporty, if you get my drift!

<congratulates self for not putting "Or was she a total lardarse?" at end of post>

SophieM:

ooh la la:

That's what I originally thought, but there were no charity logos on it and lacked the general, "running in memory of.." written on it. The front was plain. She also didn't look especially sporty, if you get my drift!

<congratulates self for not putting "Or was she a total lardarse?" at end of post>

I think I've worked it out.....

Just done some research online and there was a charity fun run today in our local park, so maybe she was supporting someone who was running.

ETA - I feel like bit of an idiot now.

Sorry again if anyone found my initial question insensitive.

You shouldn't feel like an idiot - nothing wrong with asking and in fact it souklds like she wasn't just randomly wearing the shirt. Glad we have an answer.

ooh la la:

SophieM:

ooh la la:

That's what I originally thought, but there were no charity logos on it and lacked the general, "running in memory of.." written on it. The front was plain. She also didn't look especially sporty, if you get my drift!

<congratulates self for not putting "Or was she a total lardarse?" at end of post>

 

I think I've worked it out.....

 

Just done some research online and there was a charity fun run today in our local park, so maybe she was supporting someone who was running.

Or doing it herself to get fit?  I am not exactly a runner in appearance (read short and fat!) but have run 10 miles (in what feels like dim and distant past)

You're not an idiot

I too would find the t.shirt odd, unless she was wearing it for an event of some sort.

But, and apologies in advance, this may be sensitive.......

When **Pip** over on BT lost Theo at the end of last year (having gone into labour, at term and thinking all would be well) we were first blown away that something so awful could happen to one of us, in this day and age, because it just doesn't does it?

But as we got talking about it, almost every single one of us found ourselves saying "It happened to my friend/ my cousin/ my mum/ my MIL".

These women and their partners had had babies who were still born, at term or late in pregnancy, or who were born alive but so ill that they lived for only a few hours or days.

Macca told us about the SANDS "Why 17?" campaign, and that 17 mothers, every day,  find themselves in this position, and suddenly it wasn't a surprise that we almost all knew someone who'd been affected.

The surprise was that we thought it was unusual.

We think that, because we don't talk about it, we "hush it up",  because it's dreadful and upsetting and we don't know how to handle it. 

But we need to stop doing that. Because until we do no one will change it, no one will spend money on research that can change things. And until we do these women will continue to feel that they are somehow less "mothers" than their peers.

Big thank yous to TF, Zebra And PL for speaking so sensitively and eloquently.

Tilly Floss:

The surprise was that we thought it was unusual.

We think that, because we don't talk about it, we "hush it up",  because it's dreadful and upsetting and we don't know how to handle it. 

But we need to stop doing that. Because until we do no one will change it, no one will spend money on research that can change things. And until we do these women will continue to feel that they are somehow less "mothers" than their peers.

This is it exactly. We, as a nation, aren't exactly reknowned for our emotional openness, but when it comes to babyloss, and stillbirth in particular, there is a whole world out there filled with women (and men of course, Fathers Feel Too) who feel they have to suffer in silence for fear of upsetting other people. Which is quite horrific really, that we, those who are bereaved and utterly vulnerable, feel the need to protect others' sensitivities....

To the OP, thank you for posting this. While you may have found it odd, you are at least approaching it from the right angle- you want to know more about the subject, presumably because you are sensitive to the feelings of others, and want to understand/empathise. I commend you for that.

Tragically, the statistics TF has quoted above are accurate - 17 babies every single day are stillborn (born dead after 24 weeks of pregnancy) or in the first 4 weeks of life. 

• 6500 babies every year
• The equivalent of 16 FULL jumbo jets crashing with no survivors - every year
• 4 times the number of MRSA deaths every year
• More than TWICE the number of adults killed on Britain's roads every year

Can you imagine the public outcry if 16 jumbo jets were crashing every single year? All those lives lost; without any public demand for explantion?! And yet that is the number of babies lost every year, the number of families ripped apart and left devastated.

My first son Noah, was stillborn on June 11th 2005, after a 'textbook' pregnancy and with no cause for his death discovered.

I have lost all but one of my friends since losing Noah; the majority could not handle my grief and went out of their way to avoid me. I have had to listen to such gems as, "Well at least you lost him before you got to know him"; "You're only young, you can have more" and "Well, its not like he was a proper baby, is it?".

A quick read of some of the threads on BT show that I am far from alone in enduring such insensitivity.

Champagne, I find it so, so sad that you are so disgusted by the picture of a stillborn child on your FIL's wall. I am assuming that this is not a random child, but his own child/grandchild/sibling?  Why on earth would he not display the photo, if he chooses? I have my sons' photos up - all three of them; the two I have alive and well, and the one who died. Have you any idea how painful it is that the only things I have left of my first son are a few photos and a lock of his hair?

And its not a case of wanting to "broadcast" it; its more that I want, no I need for my son to be acknowledged (I am the poster PL referred to above; the mother of three who has only two boys with me now) Its partly why we had an open funeral for him; so that he would be afforded his rightful place in my extended family (its a very personal decision, many parents are more comfortable with a private service). Many of my family members said that the funeral helped to make Noah more real to them. When a baby is stillborn, or dies shortly after birth, the parents, and the mother particularly, are the only ones who had any real relationship with them. I carried Noah for 9 months. My body nurtured him and sustained him all that time. I felt him move in me and heard his heartbeat. He was as real to me as my other children, though he never took a breath.

I cannot do anything to bring my son back, but I can do my damndest to raise awareness, raise money and raise sensitivity levels. I am training as a Sands Befriender so that I can counsel similarly bereaved parents, I attended the Parliamentary launch of the Sands Why 17 Campaign and do all I can to raise the profile of this wonderful charity, whose major goals are to support bereaved parents, their friends and families; and to raise funds for more research into the causes of stillbirth (more than 50% - last year's figure was 66% - of stillbirth have NO cause discovered, even after a PM)

I wish I'd known about Hitched, BT in particular, when I lost Noah. I think I would have felt less alone.

The ladies from BT have shown tremendous support, and raised some wonderful amounts of money for Sands, through donations, sponsored events, parties, Nearly New sales & mostly, lots of cake-eating....

If you would like to know anymore, I am happy to answer any questions. Sands website ( www.uk-sands.org ) has all the information you could ever need (plus lots of ways to fundraise....)

Any donations would also be gratefully accepted. My justgiving page link is in my signature.

Champagne:

Very odd, disturbing, weird and something I would have thought anyone who'd been in that horrible situation would never want to broadcast.  My FIL has a photo of a still-born child on the wall in their hall which I don't like and that's in their own home.

As usual as it is I find your comments very harsh.

Thank you Macca, for all of the above information. (I am a wreck now!)

I am so, so sorry to hear about your loss and I am shocked at the lack of support that you received from the people around you. I cannot begin to imagine it.

Those statistics that you posted are awful, but thank you for informing me.

I am looking forwards to one day, joining you all over on BT. You sound as though you have a very strong, tight and supportive community.

macca:

To the OP, thank you for posting this. While you may have found it odd, you are at least approaching it from the right angle- you want to know more about the subject, presumably because you are sensitive to the feelings of others, and want to understand/empathise. I commend you for that.

Thank you also for alleviating some of the worry I was feeling for posting this thread.

x

While I can see why people would have the photos/wear the t shirt and I totally support the need to acknowledge and encourage others to acknowledge the loss, I can also see how other people may find the notion of being confronted by an image of a stillborn baby unsettling, upsetting or horrifying.  I don't think that's an extraordinary reaction by any means - it is not usual to see pictures of the dead and not something you are just going to be accustomed to.

L
xx

ooh la la:

Thank you also for alleviating some of the worry I was feeling for posting this thread.

x

Please don't feel bad about it.  I was the mother of two children - AND training to work professionally with pregnant mothers and their partners - before I knew any of this stuff.  To my shame, I had no idea of the numbers until Macca encouraged us to get involved in the "Why 17?" campaign.  More importantly I'd never "met" anyone who had been through this until being on BT, and learning from Macca, Quincy, Madonna, **Pip**, Clairejk and too many others who have been one of the 17 on a day that should have been one of the happiest days of their lives.

Incidentally, the CEMACH* report into why babies are stillborn or die very soon after birth has just been published.  Three quarters of those babies die for reasons that no one can identify - yet.  And, just as the mothers who die tend to be very young or very old, from poorer backgrounds or ethnic minorities, the babies who die more often come from those backgrounds as well. 

*confidential enquiry into maternal and child health - they look at the reasons, the circumstances of every maternal and neonatal death in the UK.

macca:

Any donations would also be gratefully accepted. My justgiving page link is in my signature.

I have made a small donation, but I please let me know of any more support I can offer.

(I hope to be able to donate more when my student loan comes through and when I can find a part time job.)

In response to being quoted, I wasn't trying to be "harsh" or "insensitive" but was merely answering the OP in my opinion of her experience and then sharing one that I'd had along similar lines. I apologise if I can across like this. Not having children I can't clearly see how parents are affected by this terrible occurrence and it's shocking to see how common it is. The photo I referred to was a grandchild of the FIL but 2nd late-in-life marriage so no direct relation to my H and my MIL doesn't like it being there either.

I'm not going to come back on this thread so please don't quote me.

My MIL had a stillborn baby almost a year to the day before my OH was born (she was induced to avoid them having the same birthday). There are no photos of Charlotte in the house, and my OH was told very little about her as she grew up. The first conversation she can remmber having was just after her 17th birthday when her dad said "You're sister would have been 18 today." She's never discussed it with her mum, and it was only a couple of years ago when my OH's cousin went through something similar, that OH ever heard her mum mention it.

My godmother who I am extremely close to lost her first son Simon to SIDS at a few weeks old. This would have been about 40 years ago. She talks about it openly. She stold me how she wasn't allowed to see Simon after he died, and was expected to just move on. She has always ben very expressive, and at a time when many people felt the best way to move on was to forget, she couldn't. Even now, every year she buys a helium balloon on his birthday, and lets it go on the day he died. She loves him as much as any of her three other grown up children, and considers herself to be a mother of 4.

People deal with grief very differently. I would have been surprised at seeing that t-shirt (unless it was at some charity event) but I can understand why someone would want to express that they are a mother too, even though they don't have their baby anymore.

It's interesting how over time people are encouraged to deal with grief differently. I can't comment on my MIL as I've not had an open discussion with her, but my godmother told me she was desperate to see Simon one last time, and how she wasn't allowed to, everybody thought it wold be better for her. Now, parents of babies/children who die are encouraged to spend time with the, to say a final goodbye. I believe it can help with acceptance. I have unfortunately been present at or just after the deaths of young children (police always attend at the sudden death of a young child, just on case), and it's heartbreaking, but I can see how spending that time with their children can help the parents. I hadn't really thought about stillborn children, but I can see how having those few precious photos would be so important.  

Headless Lois:

While I can see why people would have the photos/wear the t shirt and I totally support the need to acknowledge and encourage others to acknowledge the loss, I can also see how other people may find the notion of being confronted by an image of a stillborn baby unsettling, upsetting or horrifying.  I don't think that's an extraordinary reaction by any means - it is not usual to see pictures of the dead and not something you are just going to be accustomed to.

L
xx

I agree with this (i seem to agree with Lois on everything) I can see why Champagne finds that disturbing and I think it would be better to awknoledge that rather than vilify it,. Many Many people will find pictures of dead people disturbing. I understand that in this case, if there were any pictures of the baby alive they would be the ones displayed instead in most cases, and I also understand i would be unlikely to give a *** what others thought in that situation, but still, their thoughts would be understandable.

Can I ask what the objective of why 17 is?

Oh I think everyone would agree that the t-shirt is unusual, and I'd find it very upsetting to be confronted with a picture of a dead baby without being prepared for it first.  But I think I understand a bit more about why someone might wear it than I would have done before.

Why17? Is about raising awareness of the huge numbers of families affected, raising money for SANDS to carry on campaigning - and working as a pressure group to try to get more research done into this, to try to avoid the situation where 3/4 of bereaved families don't know why their babies have died, and no one can promise it won't happen again tomorrow to another 17 families.