LO staying over with her dad - please help me I'm struggling with it.

Do you know what KT? If it was me, I'd get some advice. The financial aspect does come into play here and that is that he should be contributing financially to her upkeep. Also, when my stepson was very small, my Husband only saw him during the day, as to stay overnight would have been to unsettling for him. He only started staying over when he got to 3 or 4 years old.

I'm sure you want T to have a relationship with her father, but during the day while she's still so young might be the best option. As he has rights, you do too and it sounds like you have some concerns about his smoking etc.

I feel for you xx

Tough one really as i dont like your ex * i know i dont know him* but just something about him i dont like.

I was in the same situation as you chucked H dad out when he was 6 months old, but he has always from day one had him stay over at his house, to be honest it gave me a break. .

Even when he didnt have a job he had him, he is his dad when all is said and done and no matter how much i dont like him, Harvey has a right to see his dad. It isnt about his dads right but Harvey.

To start off with it was tough and i was ringing/texting every hour, becasue i didnt trust him either.

she is a little human as you have said maybe if she does stay he will realize it isnt such a walk in the park and not want her to stay

I know it isnt going to be easy but i think you should let her stay, let him see how you have it, and it will also give you some time out.

Thank you for the replies everyone, it's good to get different perspectives on it.

He used to have her for a few hours a couple of times a week although this changes a lot when he is "too busy"  so recently it's been once a week (decorating, out with his mates, V festival coming up, camping etc etc), basically if he gets a better offer she gets dropped like a stone, up to a point I was accomodating this and letting him have her other days, now I'm not.  If he can't have her on the days he's meant to that's his problem - he needs to get things into perspective!

I too am secretley hoping he'll realise it's not all easy and then not want to have her (he's lazy so he won't like it I don't think).  I don't know how he'd cope with her tantrums too.

Gah it's just so difficult!

I also have another question which has been playing on my mind and troubling me somewhat.  If something were to happen to me - would she automatically go to him?  My mother says she would fight it tooth and nail and I know she would as being with the ex all the time would be my worst fear for her - it's really not the life I would want for her.

xx

[ashamed confession time] When Boy1 first had nightd away with his dad, I used to get royally tiddled as I really couldn't cope [/ashamed confession].

I think I'd forgotton what a git he has been and his absolute lack of reliability.  I think Keef's / Prim and Proper's (and the others) suggestion that you need to seek legal advice is a very good one - and the record keeping - record when he drops her, record when you are concerned, when she comes back and seems ok.... the whole schebang - if it ever does end up in the legal arena this might be of use to you.

And remember, if she does go for an overnighter, we are all here for you if and when you need to vent / rant / stress.  Although hopefully your OH will have better ideas for keeping you occupied (oh lordie, that sounds smutty - not meant to)

KT, I really feel for you but I think it is better to deal with this properly now, as it is going to be ongoing and whatever your feeling about your ex, it is important that Tia has the opportunity to develop a relationship with him. Are you going through divorce proceedings yet? If so the issue of contact should come up during it. If not then it is worth you and your ex going to a family mediator to sort out your terms for access etc and to get them formalised and in writing, they are experienced in dealing with your sort of situation and will always work in the best interest of Tia. Ask your solicitor to recommend you one in the area.

Secondly have you applied to the CSA for maintenance - even if he is out of work he is obliged to give up £5 a week of his benefits to Tia as child support. You can ask them to collect the money direct from him and transfer it to your bank account, when he starts working they can then deduct the money she is entitled to direct from his employer if needs be.

All the things that are concerning you about how he will care for her / sleeping arrangements etc whilst entirely valid would not be a reason to stop access, and it's only natural that you are going to worry about her, but ultimately you aren't going to be able to dictate how your ex parents Tia any more than he can dictate how you parent her. Somewhere down the line it sounds like you could do with talking with someone about this.

I believe if something were to happen to you then as he has full parental responsability he would be he person in law who became her guardian, even if you specified in writing you wanted your mum to have her unless there was a child protection issue that had been documented a court would find in his favour.

P&P whilst non payment rankles in law child maintenance and access are entirely seperate issues. He has full parental rights and his entitlement to use them would be upheld by the courts even if he never paid a penny.

big

CLx

knickers_twickers:

I also have another question which has been playing on my mind and troubling me somewhat.  If something were to happen to me - would she automatically go to him?

another reason to see a solicitor mate. my gut instinct is no he wouldn't necessarily but i could be wrong. you really need to organise a will. and i think divorce invalidates it (although that could be marriage ) so you need to get this all taken into consideration.

knickers_twickers:

I also have another question which has been playing on my mind and troubling me somewhat.  If something were to happen to me - would she automatically go to him?  My mother says she would fight it tooth and nail and I know she would as being with the ex all the time would be my worst fear for her - it's really not the life I would want for her.

Yes, he has joint parental responsibility. Your mother would need to prove that he was an unfit parant i.e. not just that she would do a better job than him. It would be incredibly unfair on all those good fathers if this wasn't the case.

I'm really sorry your going through all this, my friend is to and she finds it very upsetting. We always say that "Millie is going to stay with her Daddy because Mummy love's Millie and not because Mummy hates Daddy"

I can only reiterate was has already been said, but I feel the most important this is that you get all of this 'on record'. Sorry if I've missed anything, but have you discussed terms of divorce/seperation? It clearly needs to be discussed in amore formal arena and it's much easier for a solicitor to suggest 'ground rules rather than them just coming from you.

I know 100% that he has 'rights' to see her, and I am forever grateful to my mother for how she let me make my own mind up about mynot-so-great father, but you absolutely must get the whole issue of maintenance and 'contact time' discussed on a formal basis. I amspeaking from bitter experience here as Mr PC had an 'informal' agreement in place with his ex-wife and we are now having to go to court over a financial issue (they have been split up since 1995). Sort it now my love, it will be easier in the long run x

Money and contact are separate issues.  They should never be considered together and a court rarely if ever, does so.  That is what the CSA and its many or future incarnations are for.  You can not and should not withold contact on the basis of what the non resident parent is or isnt paying.  The easiest way to deal with this in disputes is to use the CSA calculator, in this situation its 15% of net income. Last resort go to CSA.

You cannot, fortunately  in most cases, dictate how much a child sees a parent based on what you think may happen.  You have to have proof.  A court will want proof of bad behaviour to suspend contact or order supervised contact, regardless of age of child.  Unless you have  proof then a father should and is given the right to prove he can be a parent. You can't penalise somebody for something of which you have no proof to show. 

It is incrediblty difficult.  I truly sympathise.  3 years on, Sam's father and I do not like each other.  We will never like each other.  However, as much as in private I hate every breath that emits from his body, I do not have the right to curtail his contact.  I have to let him be a father until he gives me a reason otherwise.   We stick to a pattern of contact, we both know where we stand.  Agree a pattern, stick to it, and take each day as it comes.  Dont plan  long term, plan now. 

As horrible as it is, he does have rights, he is her father and he needs to be allowed to step up to plate and prove himself. But he can only do that if you give him the chance to do so.

And the night away, it is nice, you shouldn't be afraid or embarrassed to admit that.  Take your lead from Tia, but yo have to give him a chance.

Thanks again for the replies and the s - very very much appreciated.

The decree nisi for the divorce will be issued on 15th September, which means I can apply for the decree absolut on 28th October, that should be issued a few days later so I should be free completely in early November!

I think what I will do is wait until he next brings it up and then dicuss that to begin with it will be from just after lunch (about 1pm) on a Sat and he needs to bring her back by 12pm on a Sun.  This can build up in time but for the foreseeable future it remains as that.  And every other week is often enough.

I have always been more than fair with his access to her and he knows that, I am thinking of her best interests at the moment and that is how it has to be.  I would also like to talk to both him and his GF about it and also just to see where she will be sleeping etc as that would make me feel much more settled about it (he knows that and has agreed to it).

On the other front I will talk to my solicitor I think about what would happen if anything happened to me.  Preseumably when she gets older (and OH and I are married and more children) she may get a say in what happens to her?

I know it's going to be really hard but I will never be one of those mums who stops her child from seeing their father (how ever much I want to!) I know he's a waster but that's for her to work out for herself one day and if/when she does I will be here for her, I don't ever want her to be able to say I tried to stop them having a relationship.  So I will suck it up and get on with it but on my terms at the moment.

Regarding his parenting - I know I have no control over that - that's one of the things I find hard but again I just have to get on with it and learn to accept that there are things which are beyond my control.

Thanks for helping me to get some perspective on this, I do feel a little better already and I know once things are sorted out properly and we've had a meeting to talk about it I will feel better again.  It's just so hard to let go, I just want everything to be so perfect for her.

Going out for lunch now with my mum to cheer me up but will be back later so please don't think me rude if I don't reply in the meantime.

xx

And yes she would go to her father, despite any will or otherwise you put in place.   Unless you can prove he is an unfit parent (and that takes a huge amount).

You can when and if in the future you get marriesd, draw up a step parent  responsibility agreement which gives a step parent parental responsibility, but it would have to be signed by your ex as the father witrh parental responsibility before the court would endorse it

knickers_twickers:

I know it's going to be really hard but I will never be one of those mums who stops her child from seeing their father (how ever much I want to!) I know he's a waster but that's for her to work out for herself one day and if/when she does I will be here for her, I don't ever want her to be able to say I tried to stop them having a relationship.  So I will suck it up and get on with it but on my terms at the moment.

I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind. She will realise it herself (I know I was that child) and it's important that she knows you done everything you could for her to have a decent relationship with her Dad. When I was a teenager I wondered why my Mum bothered encouraging us to see my Dad because he was a waste of space, it took a long time for me to realise, and appreciate, exactly why she'd done it.

When Leila was young her Dad and I split up for a while and I hated her going to stay with him. My Nana gave me some wise words; if he's likely to put her in any danger then don't let her go until you've got it all sorted with solicitors in the like. If he's likely to get her out of her routine for one night and give her junk food that you wouldn't then, for now, accept that it's the price to pay for her to have time with her Daddy. If you fear for T's safety in any way then get legal advice, and get it now please. If it's not that then, as much as it's horrid, then maybe give him say 4 visits? then re-evaluate the situation. I know my Mum dealt with my Dad in the same way she dealt with us as toddlers - pick your battles wisely.

It is important to deal with the maintenance issue with the CSA or whoever, but maintenance and contact are, and rightly so, two completely seperate issues. Maintenance shouldn't, imo, be something that the child is overly aware of when they are young. It certainly shouldn't stop contact and the law treats it as totally seperate (my father is still paying my mother now after running up such debts, but always got his contact).

Practically wise please don't sit at home fretting while Tia is at her Daddy's - you'll only worry more. Use the time to do something, even locally so you can get to her if need be, but go for a meal, see a film. Keep busy and hopefully in time you'll both not dread it.

I really think if I was in your shoes I would be speaking to a solicitor, you would be better establishing formal contact arrangements that take into account Tia's age and needs, and stop his family having control. You need to raise your concerns about the cannabis use and if they ask for a drug test ( they can tell from hair if they have been used for months afterwards) then that would play inot your hands as he may back down as far as overnights are concerned. If you are genuinely concerned about her well being whilst in his care you need to fight this

Oh KT, bless you.

Please get it formalised in writing.  I also don't think going from not having her to having her overnight is a good idea.  Could he work up to it by having her say lunch time to bedtime then 9am till bedtime and then over night?  That's how what I did with Amelia and her Nan.  Now she loves it and goes to her house no problem.

Also, as hard as it is (and I know its heart breaking for you, I can tell) please give Tia the opportunity to have her Father in her life, regardless of how he chooses to live it.  Sadly my Mum didnt give me the opportunity to know my Dad (he had done time for fraud and driving without a licence, so wasn't the "best" role model for me) and I found out when I was 15 that he had tried and tried and tried to get to see me (albeit unofficially) and nobody in my family would let him.  I found out who he was and sent him a letter.  It was pretty nasty, as I was so hurt (didnt know that he had tried to see me until much later) and I got a verbal reply through a mutual family friend of simply "I'm watching you grow up from afar and I am incredibly proud of you dear Samantha and no matter what, I shall always be your Father".  I will never forget that.  He died of a heart attack 3 weeks later.  I never got to know him, never got to meet him (that I can remember as he left Mum when I was a baby), I cant remember his voice, his smell, his touch.  It took me 10 years or so to forgive my Mum and although now we have a fab relationship, I cannot forgive her from keeping me away from him.  He wasn't a good Dad, he wasn't always a good person, but he was my biological Father and I had a right to make up my own mind.  As will Tia.

Sorry to rabble on but I just wanted you to hear it from another perspective.

Good luck, I hope it all works out.

x

Thank you for the replies everyone, I realy do appreciate it.

I have had a chat with mum over lunch and I know that however much of a twunt I think the ex is he wouldn't ever knowingly do anything to harm Tia.  So Julz I think your nan's words are indeed wise ones, he's going to to do things I don't with her (junk food, up late etc etc) but ultimately he wouldn't harm her I'm sure.

I think that this is prob my issue that I need to get over it's just so hard to let her go.

I am going to try to think of the positives in doing it this way.  Instead of the usual thing whereby he has her 11-5 one day every weekend this way he will have her overnight every other and then me, OH and T get a full weekend together as a family which will be lovely.  And also means that a couple of times a month OH and I get a night alone together and can spend some time as a couple which will be lovely too. 

I don't want to go through the solicitors for this as so far it has been sorted out amicably and I haven't had a problem with our arrangement so far.

I know that a lot of the issues are mine with regards to letting my baby go, I find that very hard.  I felt just as awful when he took her to Bradford for the day because it was so far away (2 hours ).

I have always said I would never stop her seeing him and I stand by that.  I won't ever be that woman - it's just not me.  But that doesn't mean that I find it easy to let her go.  But in my heart of hearts I do know that he loves her and as her father I suppose I have to trust him until/unless he proves to me otherwise.

AFAIK the first time he has her overnight will be 5th September so expect me blubbing after she's gone .

Thanks again for your help it has really helped to put things in perspective, it's also been useful to hear what others have done and that I'm not alone in feeling this way.

xx